The Potential Restoration Thread

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Qwinn Qwinn 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #744
    Qwinn
    Qwinn
    Keymaster

    Recently I discovered a number of unimplemented “Light Content” quests and characters in the toolset. I’m going to detail what’s available and analyze whether or not it’s potentially restorable. Opinions are welcome.

    First, what brought these to light: Commander Telm of Harmon. Thanks to Marius Tempius for making me aware of it, which did lead me to finding all the other stuff (since it’s all pretty much in the same section of the toolset). Here’s the video he linked to:

    Analysis: This would just be the single character with a bit of dialogue about the Battle of Ostagar, added for some flavor. He makes a few comments that appear to be consistent with what you find in the Return to Ostagar DLC. I don’t see any reason to not restore this guy, though I don’t think he belongs in the Gnawed Noble Tavern as he is depicted in that video, since the GNT is portrayed as a pretty upscale establishment, and this guy doesn’t fit that. I do agree he should be in a tavern, though, since you can call him a drunk, and it should be indoors since he says he “needs some air” at one point.

    I’m thinking the Lothering tavern. Maaaybe the Redcliffe tavern. I’d probably have him sitting at a table wherever I put him. Opinions on this are welcome. And, of course, if anyone notes anything in his dialogue that is inconsistent with existing content, please let me know.

    Note that, for that video, whoever put it up modified his dialogue so you could hear every line – notice how every line of his has only one response? It’s not like that in the original, some of those various options are all to a single line by him, so the conversation the way I would do it isn’t going to be as long as that video. (The last two lines are ambient lines meant to play when you get near him or click on him a second time, btw, which is why they sound quiet. I think the last line about “beautiful lies” would probably only play if you completed the DLC – it does have a comment about playing when “plot complete” and Return To Ostagar is the only quest that makes sense for that). Course, if I put him in Lothering, that wouldn’t ever be accessible…

    I found several other unimplemented quests. I’ll post about each one as I find the time, one quest per post.

    #745
    Portucally
    Portucally
    Participant

    I’m thinking the Lothering tavern. Maaaybe the Redcliffe tavern. I’d probably have him sitting at a table wherever I put him.

    My vote goes to the Spoiled Princess. 😀

    And since we are talking about unused content… did you get a chance to look at Human Commoner Origin – Revived by Kajana and Taylor17387?

    I asked you on some other thread about the compatibility with your mod…

    Oh, and there is this Cut content | Dragon Age Wiki
    Reading that makes me wonder what could have being done with Dwyn… I always felt him to be sort of too good a character to just be used in 2 quests(?)…

    The quest they mention about the orphans I think they sort of used it later in Awakening… sorta…

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Portucally Portucally.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Portucally Portucally.
    #748
    Qwinn
    Qwinn
    Keymaster

    Quest: Ransack the Competition. Takes place in Denerim.

    Opening quest entry: “You have been asked to find ten Stolen Goods in Denerim and bring them to Feoran in Denerim’s Market District.”

    Resources available in toolset: A complete plot file (lite_den_ransack.plo). The “Stolen Goods” item. (though this may actually be for a different unimplemented quest, “Suffer the Little Children”, which I’ll post about later). A creature file and very short dialogue for Feoran, the quest giver (he never says “ten” as the number of stolen goods he wants, but the quest entries do.)

    Required for restoration: Scripting – there is none whatsoever. Enemies to actually acquire the stolen goods from.

    Analysis: Not sure it’s worth it to restore this. The dialogue is pretty bare bones (lite_den_ransack.dlg, if you want to look at it in the toolset.) And where would we *put* enough enemies to acquire 10 stolen goods from? Adding them to the thugs in Back Alley Justice might work, but then we’re basically just adding a second reward for doing that quest, which doesn’t appeal to me. If I could find 3 or 4 quests where it’s appropriate to put these stolen goods on the enemies in those quests, then maybe, as a sort of “extra reward for doing a whole bunch of quests” quest, but not seeing enough appropriate quests for that. Inclined against restoring this one. Besides, “Suffer the Little Children” also uses the “Stolen Goods”, and that one seems to have more potential. I’ll write that one up tomorrow, with video for the cut dialogue.

    #749
    Qwinn
    Qwinn
    Keymaster

    My vote goes to the Spoiled Princess. 😀

    I like it! That place is too sparsely populated anyway, and the other potential places suffered from – Lothering and Redcliffe are not the places to go if you want to avoid Darkspawn, and you’d think that’d come up in conversation! Not an issue in the SP. Okay, that’s the suggestion to beat now.

    The quest they mention about the orphans I think they sort of used it later in Awakening… sorta…

    Oh? I *still* haven’t had frikkin time to finish Awakening. I assume this would be the “Suffer the Little Children” I mentioned above. Do you have a link to the wiki page for the Awakening quest that you’re talking about, so I can compare?

    And since we are talking about unused content… did you get a chance to look at Human Commoner Origin – Revived by Kajana and Taylor17387?

    I asked you on some other thread about the compatibility with your mod…

    Yeah, just checked – it’s not going to be compatible. I touch 3 of the 4 files changed by that mod.

    #750
    Portucally
    Portucally
    Participant

    The quest they mention about the orphans I think they sort of used it later in Awakening… sorta…

    Oh? I *still* haven’t had frikkin time to finish Awakening. I assume this would be the “Suffer the Little Children” I mentioned above. Do you have a link to the wiki page for the Awakening quest that you’re talking about, so I can compare?

    Like I said… sort of used it… Like orphans being exploited but with a twist. Might be diferent tho, I didn’t even knew about that in Origins before I found that page. 😀

    Anyway, here’s the link to the quest in Awakening: Blight Orfans Notis Bord

    Bummer about the Commoner Origin. 🙁
    Guess I’ll have to unistall your mod if I really want to play it then… But dunno if it’s worthy, what I really like in all diferent origins are exactly that: play the origin, then after Ostagar most of it is very similar with a few things according to said origin but mostly the same…
    This mod, as interesting as it sounds, don’t have a playable origin and as such I’ll have to consider if it’s worthy to play without your Fixpack just to try it…

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Portucally Portucally.
    #752
    Qwinn
    Qwinn
    Keymaster

    That Awakening quest seems totally different from the quest I’m referring to, no real overlap I can see. Will continue to look into it.

    As far as the Commoner origin, I really didn’t see nearly enough content around the game files for it to be worth restoring. Maybe 3 or 4 lines, mostly when meeting King Cailan, and virtually nothing after. They seem to have added a bit of unvoiced dialogue, but not much. Honestly even if my fixpack wasn’t an option, I wouldn’t try it, you’re basically just giving up a ton of content from the main 6 origins to replace it with… well, a bit of unvoiced dialogue. Eh. Valiant effort but just can’t compete with the 6 existing.

    #753
    Firepanda
    firepanda
    Participant

    I fully support restorations. They aren’t pure fixes, but they add a lot of valuable and interesting content.

    * Agreed that Telm should go to the Spoiled Princess, the quietest pub. Dane’s Refuge, Redcliffe and Gnawed Noble have important roles in main questlines.

    * For Ransack the Competition, there is also the Deserted Building (for The Last Request), various Back Alley encounters and that one Blackstone Irregulars dude. Alternatively, would it be possible to have it randomly drop from bandits and mercenaries around Denerim, a la Corpse Gall?

    #754
    MartenX
    MartenX
    Participant

    Regarding the commander: I support the Spoiled Princess.

    But even with this guy I am not sure if it is content that was cut intentionally some time during the design process and not necessarily just due to time or budget constraints.

    Qwinn do you intend to include restorations like the “Ransack” quest in your fixpack or is this something you consider for a separate mod? To me it simply does not feel like a “fix”. But however you decide to handle it, your work and dedication is greatly appreciated! 🙂

    Any chance of ever seeing a fixpack for rules to work in tandem with your current one?

    #755
    Illusia
    Illusia
    Participant

    Stolen goods could also be found in various chests around the Denerim maps. You could maybe even add some lootable items on tables or shelves (as was done with “Keep Out of Reach of Children” quest in Awakening). Basically, reward the player for exploring rather than for killing enemies — it’s nice to have some variation.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Illusia Illusia.
    #767
    Firepanda
    firepanda
    Participant

    Marten, I think DA Rules Fixpack is perfectly compatible. In fact, Qwinn went out of his way to tidy up events in the Attack at Nightfall, so DARF was more compatible with other mods.

    I think running separate fixpack and restoration packs would be difficult with how he packages his mods (he’d have to develop them separately, then test for compatibility).

    #774
    Qwinn
    Qwinn
    Keymaster

    But even with this guy I am not sure if it is content that was cut intentionally some time during the design process and not necessarily just due to time or budget constraints.

    I generally default to “time and budget constraints” or “simple oversight” unless I find any evidence to the contrary, which can sometimes be a subjective decision but I tend to be pretty conservative about that sort of thing:

    Qwinn do you intend to include restorations like the “Ransack” quest in your fixpack or is this something you consider for a separate mod? To me it simply does not feel like a “fix”. But however you decide to handle it, your work and dedication is greatly appreciated! 🙂

    Ransack, if I did it (which is doubtful, although if I did, I probably *would* go with Illusia’s idea of just putting them in various placeables), would be in a separate “Unfinished Business” style package. There’s room for reasonable doubt in everything else I’ve discovered over the last few days that their removal may have been intended, so I’ll alleviate any worries about that by packaging them separately. The exception is Telm, who I think is in line with the rest of the restorations that made it into the Fixpack. His resources are complete, he adds flavor that ties in nicely with a DLC, he has an underdeveloped place to put him (the Spoiled Princess) and he doesn’t add xp or anything else potentially unbalancing. Nothing about him makes me think he was cut deliberately, so he’ll go in Fixpack v3.4.

    Any chance of ever seeing a fixpack for rules to work in tandem with your current one?

    Sadly, there hasn’t been much support for a project that large so far. At the rate that simple boredom might motivate me to spend the requisite amount of hours to produce such a thing… I wouldn’t expect it anytime soon.

    And yeah, some of my fixes make my mod more compatible with mods like DARF than the vanilla game is, so those will have to do for now.

    #806
    Folgore
    folgore
    Participant

    Regarding the commander, I’d say “Dane’s Refuge” in Lothering since it’s relatively close to Ostagar, though I’d make him look battered to reflect the recent battle. His presence would help with the atmosphere of impending doom that’s about to strike Lothering.

    As to other restorations, is anything possible with the Orlesian merchant Liselle that you meet in Denerim? I believe she is the remnant what was intended to be a side quest.

    #813
    Qwinn
    Qwinn
    Keymaster

    Hiya folgore, welcome to the forums! Lothering was my first thought, but I think if he *were* there, with darkspawn coming, it would be natural for him to say something about it (like “Time to move on”) but he doesn’t, so it doesn’t seem to fit. Also, there’s a line that I will probably only have play if you complete the RtO DLC (or more likely, if you have Cailan’s sword in your inventory), and if he’s in Lothering he won’t be accessible for that line. That’s 2 reasons I think the Spoiled Princess is better.

    As for Liselle, not seeing any quest connected to her, nor any quest-related flags being set in her dialogue. She just appears to be there for flavor. No plot or scripts associated to her, nothing to restore I’m afraid.

    #846
    Alehazar
    Alehazar
    Participant

    During “Unrest in the Alienage” there is an Elven little girl named Amethyne; her name is yellow in color. Though she has a specific name and not some generic monniker, she cannot be interacted with.

    During the “Human Noble Origin”, talking to Iona [Lady Landra’s Lady-in-waiting] may reveal she has a daughter named -you guessed it- Amethyne.
    Did Bioware intend something more regarding Iona’s daughter -and the Human Noble, if they completed the quest “Sweet Iona”?

    #847
    Qwinn
    Qwinn
    Keymaster

    I believe she can be interacted with for ambient dialogue. Her lines (selected randomly)are:

    “Mamma never came back from Highever. What’s taking her so long?”
    “There’s nobody to play with me.”
    “*Cough*”
    “*Mamma said she’d bring me a present from Highever. I wonder what it’ll be.”

    So yeah, it’s very clearly Iona’s daughter. I wish there was more to it, but nope, no hint of any additional content for her, not even just for human nobles.

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